Re: Re: Re: Meat is not Forbidden In Sik my response continued:
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SUMMY SAID
Guru Arjan Dev Ji says, Pg 201
Bed PaRai mukh meeTee BaNee, Jeean kuhat na sangai praaNee.
sangai=ashamed kuhat-kill praaNee-humans Jeean-living beings
After reading the entire shabad, this line depicts, that the so called learned, saintly people read the sweet hymns of the Veds using their mouths, however they do not hesitate(feel ashamed) to kill animals |
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Complete lie and mistranslation:
from : http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=AdvancedSearchGurbani
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Page 201, Line 2
Gaoṛī mehlā 5.
Gauree, Fifth Mehl:
view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
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Page 201, Line 2
Ḏẖoṯī kẖol vicẖẖāė hėṯẖ.
He opens his loin-cloth, and spreads it out beneath him.
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
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Page 201, Line 3
Garḏẖap vāʼngū lāhė pėt. ||1||
Like a donkey, he gulps down all that comes his way. ||1||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
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Page 201, Line 3
Bin karṯūṯī mukaṯ na pāīai.
Without good deeds, liberation is not obtained.
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
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Page 201, Line 3
Mukaṯ paḏārath nām ḏẖiāīai. ||1|| rahāo.
The wealth of liberation is only obtained by meditating on the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
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Page 201, Line 4
Pūjā ṯilak karaṯ isnānāʼn.
He performs worship ceremonies, applies the ceremonial tilak mark to his forehead, and takes his ritual cleansing baths;
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
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Page 201, Line 4
Cẖẖurī kādẖ lėvai hath ḏānā. ||2||
he pulls out his knife, and demands donations. ||2||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
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Page 201, Line 4
Bėḏ paṛai mukẖ mīṯẖī baṇī.
With his mouth, he recites the Vedas in sweet musical measures,
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
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Page 201, Line 5
Jīāʼn kuhaṯ na sangai parāṇī. ||3||
and yet he does not hesitate to take the lives of others. ||3||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
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Page 201, Line 5
Kaho Nānak jis kirpā ḏẖārai.
Says Nanak, when God showers His Mercy,
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
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Page 201, Line 5
Hirḏā suḏẖ barahm bīcẖārai. ||4||107||
even his heart becomes pure, and he contemplates God. ||4||107||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok |
This shabad is swipe at Pandits and their exploitations of people. Not what you have stated.
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SUMMY SAID
The confused people who manipulate guru ji`s word for the benefit of their own lifestyle, those people are the product of kalyug, the age of darkness. LIke guru ji said above, right now, in physical manisfestation, they feel justified, and use obsucrity to justify their disgusting ways, hwowver, when the decider greets them, then they will be paying their price, for bitting into a peice of skin that may as well be their grandparents reincarnated.
Here is to hoping that when randip`s parents pass away, that his parents are reincarnated into the same peice of meat he bites down into. And the same animal who is innoncently murdered will be his parents atma reincarnated. |
A very myopic view. You realise you could bite down onto a plant and it could be your dead dad or mum? Read on:
The other argument that has been made over this issue is that there is some sort of hierarchy of incarnations within Sikhism of incarnations. Life goes through many incarnations (up to 84 million) before becoming human. In other words, life takes the form of incarnation in plant form, then animal, and then human. The idea being that animal form spiritually is closer to man. Biologically this maybe true, however, spiritually within Sikhism, this could not be further from the truth.
On page 176 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the following is written:
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ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.
ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.
ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.
ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.
ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o.
mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa. chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. rahaa-o.
ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa.
saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.
kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.
ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan.
jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan.
avar na doojaa karnai jog.
taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay.
kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay.
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. Pause
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru`s Teachings, and vibrate the Lord`s Name, Har, Har.
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.
Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord.
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.
No one else can do anything at all.
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har.
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Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji |
Reading this Shabad one can clearly see that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not attach any particular order to how life is incarnated. Infact it states:
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ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves; |
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Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji |
If you were to apply the logic of those that claim spiritually animal life is closer to human, then according to this a rock then becomes an aborted human foetus, then becomes a plant! It is only after this one becomes human. Surely then a plant is a closer form of life to human?
The Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji only proclaims one life form as being so precious. On page 50 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji it states:
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sireeraag mehlaa 5 ghar 2.
go-il aa-i-aa go-ilee ki-aa tis damf pasaar.
muhlat punnee chalnaa tooN sampal ghar baar.
har gun gaa-o manaa satgur sayv pi-aar.
ki-aa thorh-rhee baat gumaan. rahaa-o.
jaisay rain paraahunay uth chalsahi parbhaat.
ki-aa tooN rataa girsat si-o sabh fulaa kee baagaat.
mayree mayree ki-aa karahi jin dee-aa so parabh lorh.
sarpar uthee chalnaa chhad jaasee lakh karorh.
lakh cha-oraaseeh bharmati-aa dulabh janam paa-i-o-ay.
naanak naam samaal tooN so din nayrhaa aa-i-o-ay.
Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl, Second House:
The herdsman comes to the pasture lands-what good are his ostentatious displays here?
When your allotted time is up, you must go. Take care of your real hearth and home.
O mind, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and serve the True Guru with love.
Why do you take pride in trivial matters? Pause
Like an overnight guest, you shall arise and depart in the morning.
Why are you so attached to your household? It is all like flowers in the garden.
Why do you say, "Mine, mine?" Look to God, who has given it to you.
It is certain that you must arise and depart, and leave behind your hundreds of thousands and millions.
Through 8.4 million incarnations you have wandered, to obtain this rare and precious human life.
O Nanak, remember the Naam, the Name of the Lord; the day of departure is drawing near!
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Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji |
So clearly, the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji sees plants, animals, and minerals, on one level in terms of life, and then human form on another. To take the life of a plant is the same as an animal in terms of spirituality. The following Shabad although a metaphor for how people who speak the truth are treated, clearly shows the mind of the Guru?s when seeing life in all its form, be it plant, mineral or animal:
Page 143 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
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mehlaa 1.
vaykh je mithaa kati-aa kat kut baDhaa paa-ay.
khundhaa andar rakh kai dayn so mal sajaa-ay.
ras kas tatar paa-ee-ai tapai tai villaa-ay.
bhee so fog samaalee-ai dichai ag jaalaa-ay.
naanak mithai patree-ai vaykhhu lokaa aa-ay.
First Mehl:
Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,
and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.
What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.
And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.
Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated!
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Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji |
The folly of the argument that spiritually one is committing a bigger sin when killing an animal than a plant is a foolish one. The biological argument is a different one and is not tackled within the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but that in itself shows, the choice of whether or not to eat meat is a personal one and has nothing to do with the Sikh religion.
In any case Summy you are very easy to defeat in debate because all you do is abuse and copy and paste.
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