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Re: Re: Re: Bhagat Singh--the real inspi
Thank you for the response. First off let me say by little insults during you argument, especially when we talk about something sensitive like religion isnt right. Please be objective in your response.
First off, let me share a story with you, since you shared that story with me first. I was born and raised in punjab and only came to Canada 7 yrs ago. Although I was young, I saw the violence as a result of the fallout from Bhindranwale`s mentality and similar minded people in Punjab. I have seen it with my own eyes, inlcuding this story, please read it. I wrote it to another person, but I want to hear it for yourself....
Let me tell you a little story Amandeep, to show you that there are always two sides of the coin, and one day, how you feel and act towards others, might one day be acted towards you....
I grew up in Nakodar Punjab and only recently came to Canada, with no family. My father was a general in the Indian Army. My father was rarely home during my childhood because of the amount of travelling, and where he was stationed. Therefore, growing up, I relied HEAVILY on one man throughout my life, and that was my next door neighbour. I basically loved my father a lot, but this man, I loved like my father, and adored him more. His son and I are the same age, went to the same school, lived everything the same.
His khotay was attached to mine. At night, when I was scared I would run up to this man, who I referred to as `papa` and I used to sleep in his bed almost everyday. He would hold me and hug me just as much as he hugged his own son. He finically supported me, because him and my father we like brothers. I NEVER EVER FELT like he wasnt my father, he would hit me, and love me, would yell at me, but help me with whatever I need. HE WAS CLOSER TO ME THAN MY FATHER. I should stop because words cannot describe our relationship.
When I was about 10 years old, I went to school, and after school I used to go to him and sit in his shop for hours and help him. However, when I came home, the shop was still locked up. I went to our house, and his wife, my aunty, said that he went to Jalandhar for some buisness and was supposed to be home at a certain time, and he didnt come.
HOURS passed and it was about 11 pm, and we knew something was wrong. Myself, his older son, and my thaiya all jumped in a car and went to Jalandhar to see if someone knew something.
To save you the horrid details, I basically saw the bus in which terrorists came and killed all the people who were hindu or looked hindu. Then I saw the bodies on the side of the road.
He was on that bus. He was a hindu.
His son had to walk up to the bodies and identify his own father`s mutilated body. He was shot through the head, in the chest and in other places.
His son, a couple months later, could stand the pain and committed suicide
Sukvinder veeray, this is the fallout of the violence that plagued sikhi. Let me tell you something, talk to anyone pre-84, and talk to anyone who knew what punjab was like even right after partition. Veeray, enna ronkaa sigga punjab chh, mai tainu khey vee nahi sugdaa... Sarray khush sigga, tay hinduayaa atay sikhaa dey nafraat nahi sigga... But when Bhindranwale came into power, his speech may not say things that his brothers practied. Veeray, tell me, if you were wanted my indian government, and other punjabi for basically causing trouble and death in punjab, would you say hateful things in your speech? Of course bhindranwale will not say things such as the need for khalistan and the hate for hindus, but tell me, why did the people supporting him do the things that you say he didnt believe in?
As far as Nirankari`s. look at it from your own words. You, yourself have insulted the nirankaris, assuming that they all believed in that baba. I have many Nirankari friends, many arya samajis in my family, many nihangs, but I never consider them below or above us. I consider them sikhs, do gods seva, and the fact that there is so much division in sikhi, that along with economics, politics, and social matters, khalistan is not only impossible but taking away from the real concerns of sikhi.
I agree, India is not perfect. Its a third world community with 1 billion people. Can you imagine some people picking apart everything that goes on in Africa (continent). Of course these areas are going to have problems as every country has only 50 yrs after partition.
PUT IT THIS WAY, THE UNITED STATES, SUPPOSEDLY THE GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD, WITH THE GREATEST OPPERTUNITES AND THE GREATEST LAND ETC... THEY WENT THROUGH SLAVERY FOR 150 YRS.... WOMEN DIDNT GET TO VOTE UNTIL 80 YEARS AGO... BLACKS WERE IMPRISONED, ENSLAVED, AND TREATED LIKE RATS UP UNTIL 30 YEARS AGO (AND STILL GOING ON)
But never did I hear one a black claiming that he or she hating America...
In my opinion what Bhindranwale did was not saintly. What Manmohan has done is saintly. What many other sikhs have done using sikh identity is saintly.
Us Sikhs are NOT ANIMALS. WE DO NOT SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS WITH GUNS. WE DO NOT SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS WITH VIOLENCE, BECAUSE GURU JEE SAID THEY DID THAT SO WE DONT HAVE TO.
I have so many facts on Bhindranwale, and naming them would take me forever. I once too supported as a child, Bhindranwale, until I studied sikhi throughly, and meet with people who knew him, and I realized he preached ahankar and pride rather than peace.
I AGREE INDIA NEEDS CHANGE.... BUT NOT THE WAY HE DID IT... HE ULTIMATELY HURT SIKHS AND PUNJAB MORE THAN HE HELPED SIKHS IN INDIA...
THE JUSTICE FOR 84 WONT BE FOUGHT LIKE THE DOGS WHO DECIDED TO KILL US, IT WILL BE FOUGHT THROUGH THE SIMRAN OF TRUE GURSIKHS...
I have questions for you regarding Bhindranwale, maybe you can answer them one by one....
(1) Why after the whole city knew, the media left, and the population knew that the Indian government was going to come after Bhindranwale, why in the world, did he collect armor (sponsored by the pakistani government) and lots of weapons, and leave his compound to take hostage in Harimandir sahib ? Tell me, if he was willing to fight, why not fight a distance from harimandir sahib, a place he was living for years. I blame the Indian government way more than I blame Bhindranwale, because they have no right to eneter harimandir sahib, THEY ARE WRONG... However, Bhindranwale was at fault too... its like holding a peice of thread over a cat, eventually they will go after it
(2) Why did Sikhs have to retaliate like the dogs in delhi and how they killed sikhs? Why did they have to kill innconet hindus, and sikhs in punjab? Why did we fight like dogs when attacked by dogs? Why did we basically through away the guru granth sahib ji and use weapons rather than simran? Why did many of the people supporting Bhindranwale do the killings?
(3) Why cant the small % of sikhs realize that in order to better serve our motherland, we need to not pick up guns, but like Manmohan Singh did, pick up our minds, and use them to better our country. Use our dharam to better the land, not talk about how much we hate so and so, and how much we hate fellow sikhs...
Please answer those questions and we will go on from there...